Acadian Lines Fredericton Terminal update
Posted by Lamespotting on 13 Jul 2009 at 10:13 pm | Tagged as: Fredericton
The rezoning for the move to 150 Woodside Lane was passed, there were a few speeches, Jordan Graham gave an excellent one. Most of the councilors who voted “yes” didn’t actually think that it was a good place for the bus terminal, but that it wasn’t the job of council to tell a business where they should go.
This doesn’t mean that the debate is over, the move to Woodside Lane is not final. Acadian Lines can still choose to go wherever and whenever it wants to. The overall message from Council was that they were still interested in keeping the terminal downtown.
One thing that really disappointed me was how the opposition conducted themselves. They were continually interrupting speeches and yelling during the actual reading of the by-law. This behaviour was immature and would only be appropriate at a wrestling match. (To be fair, yelling at wrestlers doesn’t work either as the results of those matches are also predetermined). In fact, they may have doomed their cause as many people who are against the move will not want to be associated with that crowd. Hopefully the organizers of the protest will release a statement distancing themselves from “those people”.
For more on this subject, go see: Summary of Fredericton’s Acadian Lines Bus Station Controversy
**UPDATE** Acadian Lines has decided not to move to Woodside Ln, instead they are moving to Hubbard Rd.
Tantrums are never pretty and generally reduce credibility. I don’t think there are many in favour of the move, but they do respect Acadian’s right to make that choice.
Acadian has a right to make that choice, certainly, but their decision engages the public interest because it represents one of precious few ways to get around the Maritimes without a private vehicle. People who don’t have cars are pretty much a captive market for Acadian. I don’t condone the heckling, but I don’t really accept that those of us directly affected by this decision (I would be, were I not leaving the province) are only “credible” if we remain calm about it; this move is imposing additional inconvenience and cost on people who frequently can ill afford it, and that does tend to make people angry.
They acted that way on purpose as per their website
“Want the Mayor and City Council to KEEP IT DOWNTOWN? Then come on out and say so! Banners and noise makers welcome.”
http://keepitdowntown.org/
One thing I didn’t enjoy was that several councillors, especially Bruce Grandy, made the point that the city has no place telling business where they can and cannot be located. That’s absolute nonsense, because that’s exactly what zoning is: telling a business where it can and cannot be located. The City had no problem telling the MusicPlex that adult entertainment was not suitable for Nashwaaksis, why is it afraid to tell a bus company where they can drop off passengers.
Aside from that, the protesters did make themselves look foolish with the catcalling, etc. I also don’t understand how this is an environmental/climate change issue. I believe the bus station should be located near downtown/the universities, but not because sea levels will rise otherwise. Why not just use the SUB on campus as the depot?
I think those who regard it as an environmental issue are thinking of vehicle owners who might ride the bus and leave the car at home (thereby shrinking their carbon footprint, etc.) but won’t if doing so is expensive and inconvenient. Inter-city coaches are pretty wretched anyway, so I doubt there are a lot of drivers willing to ride them (I could be wrong), but certainly, moving the terminal to the middle of nowhere doesn’t make it a more appealing option.
As for the SUB, I’m not sure the space in front of it is big enough for a loading area, there’s very little seating in the lobby, and there’s no place in the building that makes sense for ticket purchases and the like; every potential space is either occupied or deep in a maze of hallways.
You can’t expect a private land owner such as UNB to want to have more (and heavier) traffic on the roads that they have to maintain. Their long term plan is to eliminate vehicles on campus entirely.
I do agree it should be more accessible, not necessarily just for pedestrians. The old location was garbage for the bus drivers.
Adult entertainment && a bus depot are two entirely separate things. For some reason more people have a problem with nipples, even though everyone has them.
The city has a bunch of new roads and a business that wants to move there, doesn’t sound like the city could find a problem with zoning.
“Adult entertainment & a bus depot are two entirely separate things”
The councillor said that the city has no business telling any private business where they can and cannot locate. It sounds to me like he’s against zoning altogether, yet they used zoning and permits to prevent another business from operating in an area deemed inappropriate for such activity.
What if Acadian Lines wanted to move it’s depot to the corner of Douglas Ave and Lexington Lane? Would the city council once again say that they have no place in telling a business where it can or cannot open up shop?
The City absolutely has the power to dictate where certain businesses should be located. I’m surprised they so quickly ceded power in this case when they’re so eager to use it in others.
Councillors admitted that no one wanted this, which is true. No one wanted the bus station to move and yet there they were – voting to move the bus terminal. If it isn’t their job to dictate where a private business can go WHY WERE THEY VOTING ON IT?
If you want to completely ignore your constituents, that is one thing. You should also demand that you be able to do so in silence. Are we pathetic beaten-down victim/serfs, completely subservient to our Irving Lords that we attack each other when one of us speaks out? Real democracy is loud and messy – tyranny is as quiet as a library.
I never claimed the city didn’t have the power to reject zoning.
The councillors will have a lot more people to answer to for allowing a titty bar.
The situations are only analogous if you conveniently forget that adult entertainment is deemed to be unseemly by most people. There was no reason from council to say no to a private business (Acadian) that most voters will not think of as an issue.
I’m not an opponent to the bus station remaining downtown, I agree with many of the arguments put forward by keepitdowntown.org but the fact is the bus station needs a home, there is no home downtown and the proposed location or nature of the business isn’t controversial so there is no reason to not approve the location.
The only people to really blame are the owners of the current location, if it’s true they’re building a parking garage, it’s an entirely unnecessary construction that takes away something that’s more useful downtown.
“I never claimed the city didn’t have the power to reject zoning.”
I’m not talking about you. It was Councillor Grandy who went on the radio and said that the city has no place telling businesses where they can be located.
They weren’t voting to move the bus terminal though. They were voting on zoning.
The city isn’t voting to kick acadian out of downtown. Irving already did that. The city can vote “no” to rezoning, but with no alternative location to vote on what’s the point? If no better location can be found (and approved) in city limits, Acadian just moves outside them. Which would work out for precisely no one.
The councillors may not like the location but there is nothing otherwise preventing them from voting to allow the bus station to go to Woodside Ln. There was no alternative location put forward by Acadian, and if the city could think of one don’t you think they would have presented that to the company?
Besides, regardless of the location, city council would still be voting. So the question “WHY WERE THEY VOTING ON IT?” isn’t even relevant.
I’m not responding cause I disagree with people who wish the bus terminal to be at a more convenient location. I agree with them. Just not the arguments I see here.
As for the councillor’s statements regard their place to tell businesses where to go (or not), maybe they should have just shut up and understood that’s exactly what their job is with regards to zoning. I mean it does show a level of incompetence in council if they can’t understand what their job is. Add to that the fact that none of them knew what they were voting on with the Woodlot a few months ago and maybe we need better councillors in city hall.
first of all why are they or did they have to move from the downtown location for?
is the city putting something in the terminal’s old location?
if what i read above theyre planning to put a parking garage, why do we need another parking garage for? so the city can get more money outta people cause in my books the new convention centre just round the corner is going to have one & kings place just a block away has one so why would they need another one for? if the bus terminal has been there for years & worked why fix it when it was working there to begin with? i just think moving it out the middle of nowheres is stupid plus i went to their site & it doesnt even mention woodside lane as their location it reads 85 Hubbard Rd. which i think i found on google maps its down in the industrial park area.still why would customers wanna take the bus & have to travel all the way there or if its at woodside lane travel up there.
i havent taken the bus since 1995 but did take it in the early 90s but i think putting a garage there & take the bus out is the wrong idea. all i see them building in downtown is office buildings & more office buildings. is this city doing that much business that it needs a office building at every corner of downtown? cause everytime i hear another project happening in this city i always say bet ya its another office building & most times thats what it turns out to be.if they put their heads to use there are locations throughout the downtown area where they could have a terminal they just dont want it downtown by what im hearing.just more office space that this city dont need & that new centre going to be more like is this city filling every office in our downtown? im thinking NO look what happened to service nb they builted a new facility on two nations crossing which isnt that far from dtown.so why dont they maybe come up with a plan maybe build a terminal up there cause theres alot of space to build & more than enough space for the buses to turn & park.plus theres transit up that way so students can take a bus to their resident if its a student even if its a non student bus service is up that way if they dont have lot of luggage.i just think the city says theres nowheres to have a bus terminal i can think of tons of ideas i just mentioned one.but im sure in the dtown core they could come up with an idea for a terminal.
but i just want to know is the reason they got booted was they want to build a pkg garage in its place?
South, I can answer some of your questions.
The city isn’t involved in this at all. The old bus station is owned by Commercial Properties, an Irving company. They are the ones who essentially kicked out Acadian Lines.
As for what they’re going to build there, I don’t think it will be a parking garage as the rates in Fredericton are so cheap it wouldn’t make money. There is a shortage of office space in Fredericton so it will probably be an office building that goes in there.
The bus company went to get the Woodside Ln site approved for it to be used as a bus terminal, but they decided to go to Hubbard Ln instead for some reason.